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(chomp)On Fri, 02 Aug 2024 21:02:48 GMT, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
These cheap operating systems like the Galaxy smartphone and the Garmin series have a million restart bugs in the updating firmware.
It happens occasionally, but not as a regular 'feature'. If it were to
happen as aoften as you incorrectly think, every device everywhere would
be having restart after update issues constantly. Newsflash sparky, they >don't.
Or you can believe the guys that never owned a Garmin. Krygowski or Liebermann.
The fact that you own a garmin doesn't qualify you as a garmin expert.
In fact, your constant problems misunderstanding how these systems
operate completely contradicts any advice you may have to give on the
subject (or any subject, for that matter).
Your constant misinformed postings qualify you as no more than an idiot.
On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 06:28:21 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
(chomp)
On Fri, 02 Aug 2024 21:02:48 GMT, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
These cheap operating systems like the Galaxy smartphone and the Garmin series have a million restart bugs in the updating firmware.
It happens occasionally, but not as a regular 'feature'. If it were to >>happen as aoften as you incorrectly think, every device everywhere would
be having restart after update issues constantly. Newsflash sparky, they >>don't.
Tom left the EXIF data on one of his photos. Tom owned a Samsung
smartphone, which qualifies him as "experienced".
Samsung SM-A516V
f/2 1/141 4.6mm ISO50
That's a Samsung Galaxy A51 5G UW ><https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_a51_5g_uw-10371.php>
The "A" series phones are considered mid-range. ><https://www.samsung.com/uk/mobile-phone-buying-guide/samsung-phone-ranges-explained/>
Support for this phone ended in June 2024. ><https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_ends_support_for_the_galaxy_a51_5g_a41_and_m01-news-63142.php>
Unfortunately, I've owned and repaired a fair number Samsung phones
over the years. One former customer would give me his old Samsung
phone when he upgraded to a newer Samsung phone. I think I have 3 or
4 such phones. In this case, repeating the same mistake over and over
again was not a sign of insanity, but rather was a sign of customer
loyalty. I did have problems with "updating firmware" but those were
the result of attempts to install custom ROM images. I did it to
myself a few times until I learned that the marginal benefits of a >jail-broken phone were not worth the effort.
Or you can believe the guys that never owned a Garmin. Krygowski or Liebermann.
The fact that you own a garmin doesn't qualify you as a garmin expert.
I currently own about six Garmin GPS devices, most of which might
still work. I didn't count them. Does owning six Garmin GPS devices
make me six times as qualified as Tom with only his Garmin 830? Having >experience is useful, but is not a substitute for understanding how
things work.
In fact, your constant problems misunderstanding how these systems
operate completely contradicts any advice you may have to give on the >>subject (or any subject, for that matter).
Your constant misinformed postings qualify you as no more than an idiot.
It's fairly easy to identify a genuine expert online. Every specialty
has its vocabulary, acronyms, buzzword, metaphors, trade jargon,
slang, etc. All of these change constantly. An expert in a specialty
will use all the right terms, in the correct context, and in a manner >consistent with the general information available on the specialty.
That's certainly not Tom with his "light lines", PWM, mis-spelled
company names, etc. It is possible to use Google or ChatGPT to
produce a number of buzzwords, but without the background knowledge as
to what they really mean and how they are used by people in the
specialty, they are useless and usually result in a word salad.
On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 21:36:41 -0000 (UTC), Ted Heise <theise@panix.com>
wrote:
I do wonder if the thing got too wet when riding in the rain a few
days ago, and is getting gradually better as it dries out. Who
knows.
That's a good possibility:
"Rain and moisture has serious detrimental effect on 830" <https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830/194977/rain-and-moisture-has-serious-detrimental-effect-on-830>
It's possible to "pump" water into an allegedly waterproof enclosure.
Heat the GPS with hot air to about 45C. Then dump it in a bucket of
10C cold water. The air inside the GPS will contract and create a
partial vacuum, which then sucks the water into the enclosure (if
there are any leaks). Look for condensation INSIDE of the enclosure
and intermittent button press failures.
Most consumer GPS products can survived one or two heating and dunking
cycles without difficulty. The units that I tested in the mid 1990's
were horrible. None of them survived more than about 10 heating and
dunking cycles. After failure, none of them recovered by themselves
as there was no path for the water vapor to exit the enclosure. I had
to disassemble all the test units and hot air dry them. (Hint: Rice
doesn't work).
The Edge 830 has a IPX7 water rating: <https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/edge830/EN-US/GUID-CE2FC337-A232-482C-8747-A49C0098962E.html>
<https://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/waterrating-definitions/>
"IPX7 - Withstands incidental exposure to water of up to 1 meter for
up to 30 minutes. Suitable for: splashes, rain or snow, showering"
In other words, forget about submerging it in a bucket of water even
though the spec hints that it can be done. That also includes a
puddle of water on the faceplate, standing water on the faceplate
caused by a front bezel that creates a pond, or standing water on any
joint in the pastic case.
If you suspect that water is the culprit, my suggestions is to open
the Edge 830 case and let it dry out. Hopefully, that will help it
recover.
Sorry about not answering your question earlier. I had no idea what
was causing the problem and didn't think of water incursion until you mentioned it.
Good luck.
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 21:36:41 -0000 (UTC), Ted Heise <theise@panix.com>
wrote:
I do wonder if the thing got too wet when riding in the rain a few
days ago, and is getting gradually better as it dries out. Who
knows.
That's a good possibility:
"Rain and moisture has serious detrimental effect on 830"
<https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830/194977/rain-and-moisture-has-serious-detrimental-effect-on-830>
That seems to be confused, the displayed gradient across all devices be
that Garmin or otherwise tends to lag to some degree ie itÆs generally not >accurate, particularly noticeable across short sharp climbs where the 20% >will display after it starts to ease off.
Bad news travels fast, IÆd not chalk up much with folks on internet having >problems, if it was a known big problem IÆd expect to see it mentioned
within the upgrade 840/540 over the 830/530 folks like ><https://www.dcrainmaker.com> who do highly detailed reviews and potential >issues that come up.
Ie IÆm sure itÆs possible but IÆm cynical that itÆs a know issue as you >where.
It's possible to "pump" water into an allegedly waterproof enclosure.
Heat the GPS with hot air to about 45C. Then dump it in a bucket of
10C cold water. The air inside the GPS will contract and create a
partial vacuum, which then sucks the water into the enclosure (if
there are any leaks). Look for condensation INSIDE of the enclosure
and intermittent button press failures.
Most consumer GPS products can survived one or two heating and dunking
cycles without difficulty. The units that I tested in the mid 1990's
were horrible. None of them survived more than about 10 heating and
dunking cycles. After failure, none of them recovered by themselves
as there was no path for the water vapor to exit the enclosure. I had
to disassemble all the test units and hot air dry them. (Hint: Rice
doesn't work).
The Edge 830 has a IPX7 water rating:
<https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/edge830/EN-US/GUID-CE2FC337-A232-482C-8747-A49C0098962E.html>
<https://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/waterrating-definitions/>
"IPX7 - Withstands incidental exposure to water of up to 1 meter for
up to 30 minutes. Suitable for: splashes, rain or snow, showering"
In other words, forget about submerging it in a bucket of water even
though the spec hints that it can be done. That also includes a
puddle of water on the faceplate, standing water on the faceplate
caused by a front bezel that creates a pond, or standing water on any
joint in the pastic case.
The bezel is flat no ridges so water will not pool but be drops though
donÆt use the silicone case which I guess might make it pool marginally
more, only problem with rain is the touch screen but one can lock that, and >generally i certainly donÆt touch the device much once started.
If you suspect that water is the culprit, my suggestions is to open
the Edge 830 case and let it dry out. Hopefully, that will help it
recover.
Sorry about not answering your question earlier. I had no idea what
was causing the problem and didn't think of water incursion until you
mentioned it.
Good luck.
Roger Merriman
On Sun, 04 Aug 2024 10:44:55 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 21:36:41 -0000 (UTC), Ted Heise <theise@panix.com>
wrote:
I do wonder if the thing got too wet when riding in the rain a few
days ago, and is getting gradually better as it dries out. Who
knows.
That's a good possibility:
"Rain and moisture has serious detrimental effect on 830"
<https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830/194977/rain-and-moisture-has-serious-detrimental-effect-on-830>
That seems to be confused, the displayed gradient across all devices be
that Garmin or otherwise tends to lag to some degree ie its generally not >> accurate, particularly noticeable across short sharp climbs where the 20%
will display after it starts to ease off.
I don't understand what you're saying. The failure mechanism is
rather simple, assuming the Edge 830 uses some type of MEMS (Micro
Electro Mechanical System) pressure sensor: <https://www.sparkfun.com/categories/120> <https://cdn.sparkfun.com/assets/0/c/d/5/3/bmp384-datasheet.pdf>
There are many variations in the sensor. For example, the BMP384
above uses a gel filled cavity to reduce the effects of condensation
and contamination. I have no idea what's actually inside the Garmin
830. None of them are "water proof".
When the altitude (air pressure) readings begin to lag behind the
actual altitude, that the first sign of condensation inside the
sensor. The sensor is something like a tuning fork, which is
deflected by the differential air pressure where one side of the fork
is inside a sealed enclosure, while the other side is exposed to the atmosphere. Add a tiny drop of water to the atmospheric side and the vibration frequency changes, which changes the indicated atmospheric pressure. However, the sealed box might be genuinely hermetically
sealed or it might have a tiny hole in the box which leaks air to re-establish a reference pressure over a long period of time, such as
a few days. I suspect this is the way Garmin does it because the instructions demand that the user re-calibrate the altimeter before
the start of every ride.
The reader comment at: <https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830/194977/rain-and-moisture-has-serious-detrimental-effect-on-830/1312133#1312133>
provides a clue. The author cycles the air pressure with a vacuum
food box until the altitude delay problem magically went away. What
he did was pump out whatever water vapor or condensate had collected
inside the Edge 830. Heating, to promote evaporation or cooling, to
reduce relative humidity, can also be used to remove water. Installing
a desiccant bag inside the case would probably have prevented the
problem:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=desiccant+bag&tbm=isch>
Replace every one or two years or heat dry the bag: <https://www.roycopackaging.com/blogs/news/a-step-by-step-tutorial-on-how-to-dry-a-desiccant-bag>
Desiccant is also useful for preventing corrosion.
Bad news travels fast, Id not chalk up much with folks on internet having >> problems, if it was a known big problem Id expect to see it mentioned
within the upgrade 840/540 over the 830/530 folks like
<https://www.dcrainmaker.com> who do highly detailed reviews and potential >> issues that come up.
DcRainmaker.com is a really good site for evaluating bicycle
electronics and gizmos: <https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/garmin-edge-830-cycling-gps-in-depth-review.html>
As for news traveling fast, that's true. However, solutions, theories
and fixes don't appear anywhere near as fast when there is little or
no technical information available from the manufacturer. For
example, when I was looking for a photo of the inside of an Edge 830,
all I could find was the iFixit teardown, which showed very little.
Oops, I didn't notice that there were several 830 teardowns on the
iFixit site. This one shows a little more internal detail but nothing
that would help me find or identify the air pressure sensor: <https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Garmin+Edge+830+Battery+Replacement/149237>
Ie Im sure its possible but Im cynical that its a know issue as you >> where.
My experience with Garmin products goes back to 1992(?), when I found
myself dealing with the company and their products in both the
avionics and marine sector. My actual involvement in those days was
minimal, but was a sufficient excuse to buy an early Garmin GPS-50
which was sufficient for learning something about how GPS works: <http://retro-gps.info/Garmin/Garmin-GPS-50/index.html>
(Mine was for marine use using the same electronics but with a panel
mount enclosure).
I don't want to unload my experiences and disappointments with Garmin
and their products. Sufficient to say that I'm generally disappointed
with Garmin and some of their products and support. Yes, that's
cynical, but then I'm usually cynical with all companies and products
until they demonstrate otherwise.
It's possible to "pump" water into an allegedly waterproof enclosure.
Heat the GPS with hot air to about 45C. Then dump it in a bucket of
10C cold water. The air inside the GPS will contract and create a
partial vacuum, which then sucks the water into the enclosure (if
there are any leaks). Look for condensation INSIDE of the enclosure
and intermittent button press failures.
Most consumer GPS products can survived one or two heating and dunking
cycles without difficulty. The units that I tested in the mid 1990's
were horrible. None of them survived more than about 10 heating and
dunking cycles. After failure, none of them recovered by themselves
as there was no path for the water vapor to exit the enclosure. I had
to disassemble all the test units and hot air dry them. (Hint: Rice
doesn't work).
The Edge 830 has a IPX7 water rating:
<https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/edge830/EN-US/GUID-CE2FC337-A232-482C-8747-A49C0098962E.html>
<https://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/waterrating-definitions/>
"IPX7 - Withstands incidental exposure to water of up to 1 meter for
up to 30 minutes. Suitable for: splashes, rain or snow, showering"
In other words, forget about submerging it in a bucket of water even
though the spec hints that it can be done. That also includes a
puddle of water on the faceplate, standing water on the faceplate
caused by a front bezel that creates a pond, or standing water on any
joint in the pastic case.
The bezel is flat no ridges so water will not pool but be drops though
dont use the silicone case which I guess might make it pool marginally
more, only problem with rain is the touch screen but one can lock that, and >> generally i certainly dont touch the device much once started.
Yes, a silicone case will collect water and is probably a bad idea in
a wet environment. However, it's a good addition if there's any
danger of dropping the Edge 830 on hard pavement.
If you suspect that water is the culprit, my suggestions is to open
the Edge 830 case and let it dry out. Hopefully, that will help it
recover.
Sorry about not answering your question earlier. I had no idea what
was causing the problem and didn't think of water incursion until you
mentioned it.
Good luck.
Roger Merriman
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
"Rain and moisture has serious detrimental effect on 830"
<https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830/194977/rain-and-moisture-has-serious-detrimental-effect-on-830>
The Gradient lag etc is exhibited on Garmin and other units with and
without a barometer.
Where as the elevation differences quite possibly are related to, a faulty
or wet sensor.
I don't want to unload my experiences and disappointments with Garmin
and their products. Sufficient to say that I'm generally disappointed
with Garmin and some of their products and support. Yes, that's
cynical, but then I'm usually cynical with all companies and products
until they demonstrate otherwise.
The 530/830 was a leap ahead canÆt remember if the 1030 had come out or not >at that point, but the xx30 line Garmin made to combat Wahoo and others, >mainly a much more powerful CPU so it didnÆt just bug out as old models >would.
Essentially Garmin had to stop being so complacent the 520 etc didnÆt fair >well compared to the competition so they needed to up their game, which >unlike Nokia for example they did.
Yes, a silicone case will collect water and is probably a bad idea in
a wet environment. However, it's a good addition if there's any
danger of dropping the Edge 830 on hard pavement.
I suspect the case isnÆt water tight to the unit so water would still be >drops than a pool let alone the action of riding ie unlikely to perfectly >level.
On Fri, 02 Aug 2024 07:32:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
I suspect that Garmin and
others are aware of such problems and settled on the most reasonable >>protection solution that doesn't involve complex and expensive
solutions.
Various vendors offer waterproof "dry bags". ><https://www.google.com/search?q=gps+mobile+phone+dry+bag&tbm=isch> ><https://www.amazon.com/Pelican-Marine-IP68-Waterproof-Dry/dp/B0B52B5MGC> >These were intended for cell phones work well for hand-held GPS
receivers. Do NOT buy the bags with radiation shields, IR blocking or >reflective plastic. These will block the signal from the satellites
to the GPS.
How to mount the Garmin Edge 830 in a bag on a bicycle might be a
challenge. Rubber bands, elastic bands or packing tape will work, but
are rather ugly.
On Sun, 04 Aug 2024 21:06:28 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:
Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
"Rain and moisture has serious detrimental effect on 830"
<https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830/194977/rain-and-moisture-has-serious-detrimental-effect-on-830>
The Gradient lag etc is exhibited on Garmin and other units with and
without a barometer.
I've owned and worked with marine GPS devices that don't have an
altimeter. Marine navigation works at sea level (unless you're using
a sextant, which requires dip (height of eye) correction).
I've noticed some complaints that the Edge 830 sometimes displays one elevation but records a different number. This is usually followed by
a comment that the difference was quite small. I don't think of it
quite that way. Such a difference leaves open the possibility of
cumulative errors and possibly algorithm errors. I think I'll remain cynical.
See section on "GPS & Elevation Accuracy". <https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/04/garmin-edge-830-cycling-gps-in-depth-review.html>
"Though I did see some elevation issues here were it showed me quite a
bit higher in elevation than I really was (300ft higher than the sea I
was sitting next to). Garmin isnt super clear on why this happened,
though I havent seen it happen again. And again, that was a month ago
on older firmware."
Where as the elevation differences quite possibly are related to, a faulty >> or wet sensor.
Agreed. There's also the trap I've fallen into a few times. In
cycling, the GPS receiver and altimeter is always moving, while in
hiking or laboratory testing, there are times when the GPS receiver is stationary. These stationary periods are very useful for data
averaging to improve accuracy or to recalibrate. Except at ride end
points, averaging is not available on always moving cycling receivers.
I don't want to unload my experiences and disappointments with Garmin
and their products. Sufficient to say that I'm generally disappointed
with Garmin and some of their products and support. Yes, that's
cynical, but then I'm usually cynical with all companies and products
until they demonstrate otherwise.
The 530/830 was a leap ahead cant remember if the 1030 had come out or not >> at that point, but the xx30 line Garmin made to combat Wahoo and others,
mainly a much more powerful CPU so it didnt just bug out as old models
would.
Essentially Garmin had to stop being so complacent the 520 etc didnt fair >> well compared to the competition so they needed to up their game, which
unlike Nokia for example they did.
That's a common refrain when a successful company discovers that it
has lost its technical and price leadership. Intel today would be a
good example. The successful company concentrates on production
efficiency and treats additional research and production as a
distraction from mass production. After management has been purged
and replaced, an archeological excavation of the company research labs usually discloses many amazing new designs the products which never
saw the light of day because they might compete with the existing
products that made the company successful. This is nothing new and
there are policies that help prevent such problems. Unfortunately, it
only takes one "temporary" decision to put immediate profits over long
term product superiority to trash the formerly successful company's leadership. I can't claim that Garmin fits into this pattern because
I don't have enough experience with their rather large product line. I
do know that Garmin showed a few signs of over-confidence and
technical ossification that might be an indication of a problem.
Yes, a silicone case will collect water and is probably a bad idea in
a wet environment. However, it's a good addition if there's any
danger of dropping the Edge 830 on hard pavement.
I suspect the case isnt water tight to the unit so water would still be
drops than a pool let alone the action of riding ie unlikely to perfectly
level.
A pool of water against a crack in the case will pump quite a bit of
water into the case. Pumping high humidity air into the case is
almost as bad. Both modes are cumulative, where the water keeps
entering the case, but not leaving. I suspect a drain hole (or
desiccant) might help.
On 8/6/2024 2:23 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Being retired, I don't have a need to ride in the wetIn the early 1990s we spent nearly a month touring Ireland
anymore and some
reasons to avoid it. But I did a lot of riding in the
rain on my
commute and during vacations.
<https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/navi/img-5685.jpeg>
<https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/navi/IMG_1405.jpeg>
The latter, newer photo from spring 2011 was taken here, btw.
<https://www.google.de/maps/@43.3632593,2.6300401,3a,79.5y,264h,76.03t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz3iFFh4NezN4f2JhbT2bnA!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656?coh=205409&entry=ttu
Wasn't raining, that day. :-)
by bicycle. It was the wettest experience of my life.
Also, in the early 2000s, we rode coast to coast, Atlantic
to Pacific. For the first two weeks it rained on us every day.
It sort of puzzles me that most people find rain so
uncomfortable. It's as if we evolved on a planet where rain
didn't happen.
On 8/6/2024 3:14 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/6/2024 2:23 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Being retired, I don't have a need to ride in the wetIn the early 1990s we spent nearly a month touring Ireland
anymore and some
reasons to avoid it.á But I did a lot of riding in the
rain on my
commute and during vacations.
<https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/navi/img-5685.jpeg>
<https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/navi/IMG_1405.jpeg>
The latter, newer photo from spring 2011 was taken here, btw.
<https://www.google.de/maps/@43.3632593,2.6300401,3a,79.5y,264h,76.03t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz3iFFh4NezN4f2JhbT2bnA!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656?coh=205409&entry=ttu
Wasn't raining, that day. :-)
by bicycle. It was the wettest experience of my life.
Also, in the early 2000s, we rode coast to coast, Atlantic
to Pacific. For the first two weeks it rained on us every day.
It sort of puzzles me that most people find rain so
uncomfortable. It's as if we evolved on a planet where rain
didn't happen.
Cyclist's secret: Humans are drip dry!
On 8/6/2024 4:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/6/2024 3:14 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/6/2024 2:23 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Being retired, I don't have a need to ride in the wet anymore and some >>>> reasons to avoid it.á But I did a lot of riding in the rain on myIn the early 1990s we spent nearly a month touring Ireland by bicycle.
commute and during vacations.
<https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/navi/
img-5685.jpeg>
<https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/navi/
IMG_1405.jpeg>
The latter, newer photo from spring 2011 was taken here, btw.
<https://www.google.de/maps/
@43.3632593,2.6300401,3a,79.5y,264h,76.03t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!
1sz3iFFh4NezN4f2JhbT2bnA!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656?
coh=205409&entry=ttu
Wasn't raining, that day. :-)
It was the wettest experience of my life.
Also, in the early 2000s, we rode coast to coast, Atlantic to Pacific.
For the first two weeks it rained on us every day.
It sort of puzzles me that most people find rain so uncomfortable.
It's as if we evolved on a planet where rain didn't happen.
Cyclist's secret: Humans are drip dry!
True. But I'm miserable while dripping.
I took part in a group hike this morning. Not very hot, but the humidity
was such that I was literally dripping, very uncomfortably, at the end,
just as I was at the end of yesterday's club ride.
At least on a bike, there's relative air motion.
On 8/6/2024 2:23 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Being retired, I don't have a need to ride in the wet anymore and someIn the early 1990s we spent nearly a month touring Ireland by bicycle.
reasons to avoid it. But I did a lot of riding in the rain on my
commute and during vacations.
<https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/navi/img-5685.jpeg>
<https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/navi/IMG_1405.jpeg>
The latter, newer photo from spring 2011 was taken here, btw.
<https://www.google.de/maps/@43.3632593,2.6300401,3a,79.5y,264h,76.03t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz3iFFh4NezN4f2JhbT2bnA!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656?coh=205409&entry=ttu
Wasn't raining, that day. :-)
It was the wettest experience of my life.
Also, in the early 2000s, we rode coast to coast, Atlantic to Pacific.
For the first two weeks it rained on us every day.
It sort of puzzles me that most people find rain so uncomfortable. It's
as if we evolved on a planet where rain didn't happen.
On 8/6/2024 2:23 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
Being retired, I don't have a need to ride in the wet anymore and someIn the early 1990s we spent nearly a month touring Ireland by bicycle.
reasons to avoid it. But I did a lot of riding in the rain on my
commute and during vacations.
<https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/navi/img-5685.jpeg>
<https://www.mystrobl.de/Plone/radfahren/technik/komponenten/navi/IMG_1405.jpeg>
The latter, newer photo from spring 2011 was taken here, btw.
<https://www.google.de/maps/@43.3632593,2.6300401,3a,79.5y,264h,76.03t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sz3iFFh4NezN4f2JhbT2bnA!2e0!5s20110301T000000!7i13312!8i6656?coh=205409&entry=ttu
Wasn't raining, that day. :-)
It was the wettest experience of my life.
Also, in the early 2000s, we rode coast to coast, Atlantic to Pacific.
For the first two weeks it rained on us every day.
It sort of puzzles me that most people find rain so uncomfortable. It's
as if we evolved on a planet where rain didn't happen.
Hi all,
I've used a Garmin Edge 830 for several years now with very few
(if any) real problems, but the last couple of rides the altimeter
has gone crazy. It takes the elevation for its stored home
location (692 ft) just fine when I start the ride, but then it
starts climbing on its own and then descending--with no reflection
of the real elevation.
Here's the profile that shows for the ride today (FWIW, I never
saw the unit display anything over the mid 900s)...
https://ridewithgps.com/trips/207523646
and here's the proper profile from the route...
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/47703480
Anyone seen this before or have suggestions? And no, I haven't
tried resetting the unit yet, but do plan to.
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
I've used a Garmin Edge 830 for several years now with very
few (if any) real problems, but the last couple of rides the
altimeter has gone crazy. It takes the elevation for its
stored home location (692 ft) just fine when I start the ride,
but then it starts climbing on its own and then
descending--with no reflection of the real elevation.
Here's the profile that shows for the ride today (FWIW, I
never saw the unit display anything over the mid 900s)...
https://ridewithgps.com/trips/207523646
and here's the proper profile from the route...
https://ridewithgps.com/routes/47703480
Anyone seen this before or have suggestions? And no, I
haven't tried resetting the unit yet, but do plan to.
The only time I’ve had some funky elevation is thunderstorms or
rather a significant pressure change as front moves in.
On 7/31/2024 5:43 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
Anyone seen this before or have suggestions? And no, I
haven't tried resetting the unit yet, but do plan to.
Many years ago I was given a Nike Lance Armstrong watch as a
present. (This was back when Armstrong was still a hero to
many.) It was kind of fun for years, but eventually its
altimeter went crazy, indicating continuous nonstop altitude
gain. As I recall, contacting Nike resulted in instructions to
send it in for repair at about the price of a new one.
Sorry, I have no practical advice.
On Thu Aug 1 14:07:25 2024 Ted Heise wrote:
On Thu, 01 Aug 2024 04:58:13 GMT,
Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
I've used a Garmin Edge 830 for several years now with
very few (if any) real problems, but the last couple of
rides the altimeter has gone crazy. It takes the
elevation for its stored home location (692 ft) just fine
when I start the ride, but then it starts climbing on its
own and then descending--with no reflection of the real
elevation.
The only time I?ve had some funky elevation is
thunderstorms or rather a significant pressure change as
front moves in.
Yeah, I've seen that behavior as well when there have been
fronts come through, but this is not in any way related to
actual changes in barometric pressure.
I reset the device last night (pain in the rear) and thought
it was okay--the reported elevation held pretty steady. This
morning it did too with the unit just turned on, but when I
had it start recording the elevation started incorrectly
increasing again.
Firmware updates can really screw the operation of the 830 up.
Check back after you've tested it now.
On Thu, 01 Aug 2024 14:57:26 GMT,
Tom KunichFirmware updAtes <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu Aug 1 14:07:25 2024 Ted Heise wrote:
On Thu, 01 Aug 2024 04:58:13 GMT,
Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
I've used a Garmin Edge 830 for several years now with
very few (if any) real problems, but the last couple of
rides the altimeter has gone crazy. It takes the
elevation for its stored home location (692 ft) just fine
when I start the ride, but then it starts climbing on its
own and then descending--with no reflection of the real
elevation.
The only time I?ve had some funky elevation is
thunderstorms or rather a significant pressure change as
front moves in.
Yeah, I've seen that behavior as well when there have been
fronts come through, but this is not in any way related to
actual changes in barometric pressure.
I reset the device last night (pain in the rear) and thought
it was okay--the reported elevation held pretty steady. This
morning it did too with the unit just turned on, but when I
had it start recording the elevation started incorrectly
increasing again.
Well, it seemed to mostly work okay on my ride today, though it
autopaused once when I was NOT stopped and also popped up a
submenu a couple of times when I had not pressed the touch screen.
This latter could possibly have been from a drop of sweat landing
on the screen, I suppose. No idea about the stray autopause.
I do wonder if the thing got too wet when riding in the rain a few
days ago, and is getting gradually better as it dries out. Who
knows.
Firmware updates can really screw the operation of the 830 up.
Check back after you've tested it now.
Yeah, I thought of that but the last firmware update was some time
back--many months.
I do wonder if the thing got too wet when riding in the rain a few
days ago, and is getting gradually better as it dries out. Who
knows.
On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 21:36:41 -0000 (UTC), Ted Heise <theise@panix.com>
wrote:
I do wonder if the thing got too wet when riding in the rain a
few days ago, and is getting gradually better as it dries out.
Who knows.
That's a good possibility:
"Rain and moisture has serious detrimental effect on 830" <https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830/194977/rain-and-moisture-has-serious-detrimental-effect-on-830>
The Edge 830 has a IPX7 water rating: <https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/edge830/EN-US/GUID-CE2FC337-A232-482C-8747-A49C0098962E.html>
<https://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/waterrating-definitions/>
"IPX7 - Withstands incidental exposure to water of up to 1
meter for up to 30 minutes. Suitable for: splashes, rain or
snow, showering"
In other words, forget about submerging it in a bucket of water
even though the spec hints that it can be done. That also
includes a puddle of water on the faceplate, standing water on
the faceplate caused by a front bezel that creates a pond, or
standing water on any joint in the pastic case.
If you suspect that water is the culprit, my suggestions is to
open the Edge 830 case and let it dry out. Hopefully, that
will help it recover.
Sorry about not answering your question earlier. I had no idea
what was causing the problem and didn't think of water
incursion until you mentioned it.
Good luck.
On 8/1/2024 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
It's possible to "pump" water into an allegedly waterproof enclosure.Heat the GPS with hot air to about 45C. Then dump it in a bucket of
10C cold water. The air inside the GPS will contract and create a
partial vacuum, which then sucks the water into the enclosure (if
there are any leaks).
It's a bit interesting that the same problem can apparently happen with
hub dynamos. Supposedly, the SON hub dynamos (from Germany) have a
pressure compensation gizmo built into them to prevent that mechanism
from rusting the insides of the hub.
On Thu Aug 1 15:54:17 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 21:36:41 -0000 (UTC), Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
I do wonder if the thing got too wet when riding in the rain
a few days ago, and is getting gradually better as it dries
out. Who knows.
That's a good possibility:
"Rain and moisture has serious detrimental effect on 830" <https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830/194977/rain-and-moisture-has-serious-detrimental-effect-on-830>
The Edge 830 has a IPX7 water rating: <https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/edge830/EN-US/GUID-CE2FC337-A232-482C-8747-A49C0098962E.html>
<https://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/waterrating-definitions/>
"IPX7 - Withstands incidental exposure to water of up to 1 meter for
up to 30 minutes. Suitable for: splashes, rain or snow, showering"
As everyomne knows. Only Jeff Liebermann would consider looking
at the Garmin literature.
On 8/2/2024 10:32 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Any
enclosed box will eventually collect condensed moisture.
I had that problem when I welded up rails for our then-new
balcony. I used 1" square steel tube for the vertical
corners, sealed (I thought) at the top as well as the
bottom. A few years later I noticed the bottom of the tubes
were bulging. Water had accumulated and apparently froze and
expanded in the winter. When I drilled after-the-fact drain
holes, I was surprised at the amount of water that poured out.
Am 02.08.2024 um 04:39 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
On 8/1/2024 6:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
It's possible to "pump" water into an allegedly waterproof enclosure.Heat the GPS with hot air to about 45C.á Then dump it in a bucket of
10C cold water.á The air inside the GPS will contract and create a
partial vacuum, which then sucks the water into the enclosure (if
there are any leaks).
It's a bit interesting that the same problem can apparently happen with
hub dynamos. Supposedly, the SON hub dynamos (from Germany) have a
pressure compensation gizmo built into them to prevent that mechanism
from rusting the insides of the hub.
From the mechanism, it can happen with any bicycle hub: park the bike
inside (20C) in winter, use the bike in the wet around 0C.
It's just that SON is IIRC the only hub expensive enough to have
detected and offered a fix to this problem.
Rolf
I suspect that Garmin and
others are aware of such problems and settled on the most reasonable >protection solution that doesn't involve complex and expensive
solutions.
On Fri, 02 Aug 2024 07:32:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
I suspect that Garmin and
others are aware of such problems and settled on the most reasonable
protection solution that doesn't involve complex and expensive
solutions.
Various vendors offer waterproof "dry bags". <https://www.google.com/search?q=gps+mobile+phone+dry+bag&tbm=isch> <https://www.amazon.com/Pelican-Marine-IP68-Waterproof-Dry/dp/B0B52B5MGC> These were intended for cell phones work well for hand-held GPS
receivers. Do NOT buy the bags with radiation shields, IR blocking or reflective plastic. These will block the signal from the satellites
to the GPS.
How to mount the Garmin Edge 830 in a bag on a bicycle might be a
challenge. Rubber bands, elastic bands or packing tape will work, but
are rather ugly.
On Fri, 02 Aug 2024 04:26:47 GMT,
Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu Aug 1 15:54:17 2024 Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 1 Aug 2024 21:36:41 -0000 (UTC), Ted Heise <theise@panix.com>
wrote:
I do wonder if the thing got too wet when riding in the rain
a few days ago, and is getting gradually better as it dries
out. Who knows.
That's a good possibility:
"Rain and moisture has serious detrimental effect on 830"
<https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/cycling/f/edge-830/194977/rain-and-moisture-has-serious-detrimental-effect-on-830>
Shoulda read this the first time. One of the commentors said he
fixed a similar problem by putting the unit into a vacuum box for
drying food. I had been thinking (while riding yesterday) that
vacuum could help draw out moisture, but not hit on this idea
(only been thinking of whether the lab at work might have anything
with a vacuum chamber). I may give this a try if I have ongoing
problems, though the commentor posted a later follow-up message
that the problem was back.
FWIW, I've ridden with this specific Garmin in pretty heavy rain a
number of times before without any problem. On the other hand,
the touch screen does have a recent scratch, so perhaps dropping
it has compromised the unit's integrity.
The Edge 830 has a IPX7 water rating:
<https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/edge830/EN-US/GUID-CE2FC337-A232-482C-8747-A49C0098962E.html>
<https://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/waterrating-definitions/>
"IPX7 - Withstands incidental exposure to water of up to 1 meter for
up to 30 minutes. Suitable for: splashes, rain or snow, showering"
As everyomne knows. Only Jeff Liebermann would consider looking
at the Garmin literature.
You say this as if it's a bad thing, but I'm not getting why that
might be so. Seems to me helpful information.
On 8/2/2024 10:47 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 02 Aug 2024 07:32:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
I suspect that Garmin and
others are aware of such problems and settled on the most reasonable
protection solution that doesn't involve complex and expensive
solutions.
Various vendors offer waterproof "dry bags".
<https://www.google.com/search?q=gps+mobile+phone+dry+bag&tbm=isch>
<https://www.amazon.com/Pelican-Marine-IP68-Waterproof-Dry/dp/B0B52B5MGC>
These were intended for cell phones work well for hand-held GPS
receivers. Do NOT buy the bags with radiation shields, IR blocking or
reflective plastic. These will block the signal from the satellites
to the GPS.
How to mount the Garmin Edge 830 in a bag on a bicycle might be a
challenge. Rubber bands, elastic bands or packing tape will work, but
are rather ugly.
It's a well populated product area:
https://bikase.com/products/traikase-phone-holder
https://bikase.com/products/elastokase-quick-release-mount-universal-for-any-phone
On Thu, 01 Aug 2024 14:57:26 GMT,
Tom KunichFirmware updAtes <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thu Aug 1 14:07:25 2024 Ted Heise wrote:
On Thu, 01 Aug 2024 04:58:13 GMT,
Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
I've used a Garmin Edge 830 for several years now with
very few (if any) real problems, but the last couple of
rides the altimeter has gone crazy. It takes the
elevation for its stored home location (692 ft) just fine
when I start the ride, but then it starts climbing on its
own and then descending--with no reflection of the real
elevation.
The only time I?ve had some funky elevation is
thunderstorms or rather a significant pressure change as
front moves in.
Yeah, I've seen that behavior as well when there have been
fronts come through, but this is not in any way related to
actual changes in barometric pressure.
I reset the device last night (pain in the rear) and thought
it was okay--the reported elevation held pretty steady. This
morning it did too with the unit just turned on, but when I
had it start recording the elevation started incorrectly
increasing again.
Well, it seemed to mostly work okay on my ride today, though it
autopaused once when I was NOT stopped and also popped up a
submenu a couple of times when I had not pressed the touch screen.
This latter could possibly have been from a drop of sweat landing
on the screen, I suppose. No idea about the stray autopause.
I do wonder if the thing got too wet when riding in the rain a few
days ago, and is getting gradually better as it dries out. Who
knows.
Firmware updates can really screw the operation of the 830 up.
Check back after you've tested it now.
Yeah, I thought of that but the last firmware update was some time
back--many months.
The 830 is nearly bulletproof.
It is VERY difficult to get moisture inside the case
and the components are uncased IC's that have a PC board that is sealed.
Remember that Frank knows ZERO about technology and that doesn't stop him from talking about it.the Garmin series have a million restart bugs in the updating firmware.
Hold the power button on until it announces that it is turning off and then after 10 seconds or so turn it back on. Your problem is no doubt an incomplete restart after the firmware update. These cheap operating systems like the Galaxy smartphone and
Or you can believe the guys that never owned a Garmin. Krygowski or Liebermann.
On Fri, 02 Aug 2024 21:02:48 GMT, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Remember that Frank knows ZERO about technology and that doesn't stop him from talking about it.
Hold the power button on until it announces that it is turning off and then after 10 seconds or so turn it back on. Your problem is no doubt an incomplete restart after the firmware update.
These cheap operating systems like the Galaxy smartphone and the Garmin series have a million restart bugs in the updating firmware.
Or you can believe the guys that never owned a Garmin. Krygowski or Liebermann.
